The King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry can trace its history back to 1755. This post however, concerns army service numbers and the dates on which these were issued between 1881 and 1914.
In 1881 The King's Own Light Infantry (South Yorkshire Regiment) was formed out of the old 51st and 105th Regiments of Foot. The 51st Regiment of Foot became the 1st Battalion, King's Own Light Infantry, and the 105th Regiment of Foot became the 2nd Battalion. The newly formed regiment started numbering from 1 in July and continued without pause when the regiment changed its name in 1887 to The King's Own (Yorkshire Light Infantry). The name would be changed for a third time, in 1920, to the King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry.
All of the service numbers listed below come from a larger army service numbers database and are listed her for the purpose of providing a snapshot of army service number patterns in the KOYLI. Service records for all of these numbers survive in the WO 363 (Burnt Documents) and WO 364 (Pensions) series at the National Archives in Kew, London. They can also be viewed on-line via Ancestry.co.uk which is currently offering a FREE 14 day trial.
In fact, there are over 37,000 King's
Own Yorkshire Light Infantry service and pension records (for this
regiment - and its antecedents) in various War Office series held at the
National Archives. Clicking on the link will take you to the results on Findmypast but you
will need a subscription or Pay-Per-View credits to actually view the
records. Some of these records can also be viewed on-line on Ancestry although
Findmypast has by far the most comprehensive service record collection.
Use the regimental numbers and dates on which these were issued, below,
to determine parameters for when your own King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry ancestor
would have joined up. Note though that these numbers are only for regular
enlistments. Special Reserve and Territorial Force battalions operated
completely separate regimental number sequences.
The King's Own Light Infantry (South Yorkshire Regiment)
45 joined on 24th November 1881
207 joined on 30th May 1882
780 joined on 6th September 1883
1163 joined on 14th June 1884
1591 joined on 13th February 1885
2281 joined on 19th February 1886
The King's Own (Yorkshire Light Infantry)
2781 joined on 2nd July 1887
2828 joined on 31st August 1888
2987 joined on 18th September 1889
3216 joined on 23rd August 1890
3565 joined on 29th October 1891
3882 joined on 15th August 1892
4113 joined on 7th January 1893
4504 joined on 4th January 1894
5112 joined on 24th October 1895
5215 joined on 18th March 1896
5462 joined on 5th April 1897
5694 joined on 10th February 1898
6222 joined on 29th September 1899
6606 joined on 14th May 1900
6755 joined on 19th February 1901
7011 joined on 1st February 1902
7436 joined on 23rd June 1903
8107 joined on 25th January 1904
8661 joined on 15th February 1905
8843 joined on the 14th April 1906
9207 joined on 10th May 1907
9842 joined on 17th September 1908
10049 joined on 15th April 1909
10181 joined on 5th January 1910
10538 joined on 8th December 1911
10584 joined on 10th January 1912
10894 joined on 17th June 1913
11008 joined on 7th January 1914
When Britain went to war with Germany in August 1914, the newly forming service battalions drew their numbers from the same series above.
The image on this post is that of Major Charles Allix Lavington Yate VC. Charles Yate joined the 2nd KOYLI in Bombay on 13th August 1892 and later took part in the Tirah Campaign of 1897-98. He was seriously wounded during the Boer War and won his VC at Le Cateau on 26th August 1914. Having led a charge against German positions there, he was again severely wounded, taken prisoner, and died a month later in a German prisoner of war camp.
I also offer a comprehensive, fast and cost-effective military history research service. Follow the link for more information.
From The Naval & Military Press:
King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry in the Great War
This from the N&M Press:
The KOYLI began the war with five battalions: the 1st and 2nd (in Singapore and Dublin respectively); the 3rd Special Reserve at the Depot in Pontefract, and two Territorial battalions, the 4th in Wakefield and the 5th in Doncaster. Subsequently the two TF battalions each raised second and third line battalions, both the former (2/4th and 2/5th) went to France, and ten Service or Reserve battalions were also raised, numbered 6th to 15th. Of these, the 6th to 10th and the 12th were formed in August/September 1914 and went on active service, while the 15th was formed in France in June 1918. All these battalions served on the Western Front, two of them also served on other fronts - the 1st in Salonika and the 8th in Italy. Fifty-nine battle honours were awarded, 9447 all ranks died and eight VCs were won.
The first chapter is concerned with the 2nd Battalion (13th Brigade, 5th Division) and takes the story from Mons to January 1915 when the 1st Battalion arrived with the newly formed 28th Division. The next chapter is their story from the move from Singapore to their first couple of months in the trenches, to early April 1915. There is a chapter describing the raising of the wartime battalions and with all those that went overseas there is the nominal roll of officers who embarked with them.
There is an index but no roll of honour nor list of awards. These are noted in the text as are officer casualties by name and other ranks by totals. Maps and illustrations are very good. CLICK HERE TO ORDER.
I was very interested to find your blog. I am currently researching my family tree and I have an old army spoon stamped "5160 4YLI". I see from your blog that the individual must have joined The King's Own (Yorkshire Light Infantry) between October 1895 and March 1896. Is it possible to obtain an exact date for this number and/or the individuals name or is this information just not available? I would appreciate any help you could provide.
ReplyDeleteAndrew
Andrew
ReplyDelete5160 for the 1st and 2nd Bns dates to the second half of December 1895 but your spoon suggests the 4th Battalion which was a Territorial Force battalion formed in 1908. Prior to the TF there was the Volunteer Force, but the KOYLI only had two Volunteer battalions (the 1st and 2nd) and so it really is from 1908 that the 4th Bn first appears.
If your spoon is silver, it would be worth checking the date mark but as far as my information is concerned, 5160 for the 4th (TF) Bn, KOYLI dates to September 1915 or later. This particular number was issued to Pte Joseph A Crowther who was later re-numbered to 202273 and who was entitled to the British War and Victory medals. No service record appears to survive for this man.
I hope this helps.
Paul
I have an ancestor Henry White who served with the 105th in 1851 in Secunderabed. He had a child Harry White in 1851 born Burma, India. Is there any way I can find Henry's Army No.? Many thanks
ReplyDeleteHello Dianne. You should be able to, but probably not on line. You need to consult the muster rolls and pay books in WO 12 at The National Archives, and also the description books in WO 25. The good thing is that you know his regiment and have a date - 1851. Finding him shouldn't be too much of a problem.
ReplyDeleteA very interesting forum, which appears to have answered a fraught question in my family history. My great-grandfather served in the KOYLI, his number was 7069, which by your listing should mean he originally enlisted with the KOYLI some time in 1902. This in turn would explain why he trooped north from Guildford (where he was living with his wife and children)to sign up for the KOYLI at Rotherham after hostilities started in 1914.
ReplyDeleteSherman
ReplyDelete7069 for the KOYLI dates to the middle of May 1902. Assuming he originally signed up for seven years with the colours and five on the reserve, he'd have been discharged from the army in May 1914. That he served during WW1 under 7069 suggests either that he extended his service at some point during those first seven years of service or (more likely) that at the end of his reserve service he extended this service for a further four years by joining the Class D Reserve. This would have given him a regular weekly income in return for the commitment to attend annual training. It's quite feasible though that when he rejoined the colours in 1914, he hadn't done any active soldiering since 1909. Locating him on the 1911 census should tell you whether he was a soldier in 1911 or a civilian.
My grandfather fought in ww1 in the 9th battalion of the kings own Yorkshire light infantry. I am trying to research the date of his enlistment from his service number which was 39821. Finding this blog seems a godsend.
ReplyDeleteHello
ReplyDelete39821 is possibly around Oct 1916, although I have gaps in my database for numbers in this range.
Paul
craigs
ReplyDeleteIn all probability he was nearing the end of his Colour service by the time war was declared and may have been retained at the regimental depot for reasons unknown. He certainly didn't go overseas until after 31st Dec 1915 and may have gone as part of a draft to the 9th Battalion. Without a service record or some other evidence in newspapers or the like, it's going to be conjecture I'm afraid.
Good morning Paul
ReplyDeleteHere is a bit of a puzzle
Soldier 38703 Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry 9th Battalion. Died aged 19
Can you tell me a date for enlistment.
Think he was born in 1899 Before KOYLI he was 80242 Training Battalion
Hope you can help
Draperju
I can't help on his one, Draperju. I have no credible data to go on I'm afraid.
ReplyDeletePaul
Paul
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately my great grandfather's service records were destroyed so I am trying to piece his war together. His service number was 24721 [1st Battalion KOYLI] - is there a way of working out his enlistment date from the number?
Thanks
Paul
Paul
ReplyDeleteMy database suggests the number dates to around July 1915.
Paul
Hi Paul,
ReplyDeleteMy uncle Harold Herbert Hall enlisted in the Koylis in Derby on (date please). His soldier number is 203906 and he joined the 1st Bat., when?
He died of Pneumonia on 9th Sept 1918 in Salonika and is buried there in the Mikra British Cemetary. Although the 1st Bat left Greece on 20th June 1918. So would he have died in Field Hospital, a Gen. Forces Hospital or a local Greek Hospital?
Also Harold Herbert is not featured on the Koylis Museum Medal List why?
Best Regards
Mike Hall
Derby
Hello Mike
ReplyDelete203906 = 4th Battalion between July and October 1916. Probably died in a British hospital of some description but not sure why he doesn't appear on the museum medal list as he certainly was entitled to the British War and Victory Medals.
Paul
Hi Paul,I am piecing together information about an ancestor, Private William Austin, born 1893 in Holbeck, Leeds. He served with the KOYLI in 1914-1918, and died whilst a POW at Dielingen work camp in Germany on 17th October 1918. His service number was 10756 and this brilliant website suggests that he would have enlisted sometime between 1912/13.
ReplyDeleteHis medal card dates his arrival in France as 11/09/1914. Would that mean he was some sort of reserve, sent to reinforce the battalion after the losses at Le Cateau?
If so, do you have any information as to his role up till then? His service record didn't survive, but he was awarded the 1914 Star. There is also a note on the medal card to say it was 'de-clasped'. Do you know what that means?
I would be fascinated to learn more, especially if anyone has information about Dielingen and how long he may have been a POW.
Any help or advice will be gratefully received.
Kind regards
Judith
Hello Judith
ReplyDeleteThe number dates to September 1912and I would guess that he was with the 2nd Battalion when war was declared. Not sure why he didn't go out with the battalion when it arrived in France in August 1914 but he wasn't far behind.
He was captured in 1914, some time between 11th Sept 1914 and 25th December 1914 as his name appears on a list of men supplied after the war who were entitled to receive Princess Mary's gift tin. This list (which I have transcribed in its entirety) is held at the Imperial War Museum and notes that William died on 17th October 1918 and that his next of kin address was 11 Colville Terrace, Beeston Hill, Leeds. No next of kin name is given. The word on his medal index card is "deceased" rather than "de-clasped". Hope this helps.
Paul
Hi Paul
ReplyDeleteI have only just started researching my grandfather's military history so very pleased to find your site. My mum tells me his service number was 405176 and I believe he went to France in April 1915. I believe he joined the Territorials in 1913. He was wounded twice in France but we don't know any details. Any leads would be really appreciated. I wish I had paid more attention when he was telling me about his war!
Gill
Please can you help. I'm trying to find out which regiment of the KOYLI's my grandfather served in during WW1. He enlisted in 1914 and I thnik I have his medal card which gives his regiment number as 35241.
ReplyDeleteThank you
Re 35241 KOYLI
ReplyDeleteYour grandfather may well have enlisted in 1914 but the number for the KOYLI is a good deal later than this. I can't be sure because my data doesn't cover this particular block but it looks as though it dates more to August 1916.
Paul
Gill
ReplyDeleteI found two medal cards for this number but I presume your grandfather was W Atkinson? He had two numbers: 1867 (KOYLI) and 405176 which is for the Royal Flying Corps. 1867 fits with pre war KOYLI TF and would date to around April 1913 for the 4th Battalion (headquartered at Wakefield) and February 1913 for the 5th Battalion (headquartered at Doncaster). Findmypast will be releasing service records for other ranks RFC and RAF later this year and so you should be able to find out more about him then.
Paul
hi Paul I am hoping you can locate my partners grandad record, William H Lappin he served in 1/5th battalion and was awarded the DCM in 1914 reg no 52920
ReplyDeleteThanks
Re William H Lappin
ReplyDeleteThe DCM Roll gives his number as 4045 and the award, "for conspicuous gallantry on the 27th October 1915 on the Yser Canal..." He served with the 5th Battalion KOYLI (arriving in France on 19th August 1915) and his number indicates that he joined the battalion around Feb 1915. The DCM award appeared in the London Gazette dated 29th November1915. William was later re-numbered 241405. He was discharged on 22nd January 1918.
Re: George Armstrong
ReplyDeleteI'm tracing my family tree and my great grandad George Armstrong served with the KOYLI during WW1 in the 2nd Battalion. He number was either 22690 or 22699. Born in 1870 in South Shields. Died in France/Flanders 1/7/1916. I cannot be 100% sure this is my G.grandad all I know is that he married Martha Johnson in the 2nd quarter 1912. I would welcome any help in trying to confirm if this is my G.grandad. Thank you Wendy
Re George Armstrong
ReplyDeleteCWGC gives 22699, as does the medal index card. Soldiers Died in the Great War also gives this number and additionally notes that he was born in South Shields and previously served with the DLI (number 10215, which is a pre-war number dating to about October 1907).
To Anon, re: William H Lappin
ReplyDeleteWilliam was my grandad too. I could give you more information. Are you in Sheffield?
More can be found about his battalion in the book 'Saturdays Soldiers' which you can pick up in the KOYLI museum shop in Doncaster.
William Stanley Deakin
ReplyDeleteI am trying to find information on my grandfather William Stanley Deakin (he went by Stanley) DOB 16 Sep 1897 in Sheffield. All my mum knows is that he was in the KOYLIs, was injured (eye sight), was a POW and went to India? after the war. I have found a medal card with the following numbers, 5051 & 241973. I would appreciate any help you can give.
Thanks
Hello Angela. The number belongs to the series used by the 5th Battalion KOYLI and it dates to March 1916, probably between the 8th and the 23rd of that month. He may have originally been 2/5th Battalion as a number of the men that I have for this series, at around this time, originally joined the 2/5th. Hope this helps.
ReplyDeletePaul
Re: Hebert H Simmonite 21527
ReplyDeleteHi Paul
I am trying to gather some information on my grandfather Herbert Henry. I believe he enlisted (under age) in 1914 and first served in France. There is a family story of him being missing in Mesopotamia but I believe KOYLI only went after the war. There were some supporting documents or letters from his co but these were given, along with two of the campaign medals, to the KOYLI museum in Doncaster, but I believe these are no longer kept there.
There is also another regimental number on medal card of 677063. Any help would be appreciated
Regards
Alan
I couldn't find anything on Herbert Henry, Alan. You mention a medal card. Were there any other numbers on it?
ReplyDeletePaul
Hi Paul
ReplyDeleteThe Medal card gives Herbert H Simmonite KOYLI Reg No as 21527 the other number is 677063 but the Corps could be Lau or Lav or Lab C the theatre of war first served in is 1 (France I believe) and date of entry therein 26.5.15 the roll number for his 1915 Star is LC/51C3 page 86/13
Regards
Alan
Sorry Alan, I was having a senior moment. You clearly mentioned his first name and number in your original post.
ReplyDeleteThe number dates to Feb 1915 and the second number is for the Labour Corps. I can't tell you when this was issued but a lot of men who were unfit to fight in the infantry due, often, to having been wounded, were still deemed to be fit enough to serve with the Labour Corps. This may have been the path that your grandfather trod.
Paul
Trying to solve a mystery or John Deverell listed by CWGC as service no 6200 in KOYLI but served as John Oldfield for which I can find some other information, his medal card seems to be under oldfield... can anyone offer any further information in this mystery?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/858519/DEVERELL,%20JOHN says (Served as OLDFIELD). Son of Charles and Sarah Deverell, of 15, Oriel Rd., Homerton; husband of Harriet Florence Horsup (formerly Deverell), of 3, William St., Stratford, London.
Ruth
ReplyDeleteSoldiers enlisted under assumed for a variety of reasons but if his medal card is under the name of Oldfield, this is the name he gave at the time of his original attestation.
Paul
Hi Paul
ReplyDeleteI am trying to find out when Lance Serjeant Joe Metcalfe of the KOYLI enlisted and/or went overseas. His number is 38956 and he was in the 2nd battalion when he died in 1918.No relation but I have a wonderful picture of him and did some research.
Thanks
Lynne
I can't be sure, Lynne, but it's possible that this number was part of a block of numbers which were issued to men transferring into the regiment from other regiments in December 1917. You'd need to do some more searching on numbers in this range to prove the point but late 1917 or early 1918 looks like a good bet form the limited work I have done on this particular series.
ReplyDeleteHi there. I have been researching my Grandfather's line in our family tree and have only just found out that he did serve in WW1 with 1st Battalion Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry. His name is Arthur Woods and service numbers are 1401669 (16631). I also know that he was in the Royal Garrison Artillery but have no idea how he move from one to the other. He survived the War and left the Army in 1926. Sadly died in 1932 at the age of 42. I really would like to find out more of his service movements. Thanks in advance.
ReplyDeleteAllyson Rendle
Hello Allyson
ReplyDeleteHe obviously went on to serve with the RGA after the war and received the Long Service and Good medal in 1926. His records will still be with the MoD so you should make enquiries there, although you'll probably need to pay for the papers.
I could undertake research for you (see the research tab on this blog) but that would not include the service records as these will be restricted to family members.
Paul
Paul
Hi Paul
ReplyDeleteI am trying to reasearch my Grandfathers service record but I keep hitting a brick wall. I would appreciate any help you can give. His name is Charles Edwin Henry Sheperd and he was a private in 1916 in Kings Own Yorksire Light Infantry service number was 25059 and thats all i know of him. Carole
Carole, I've drawn a complete blank as well. I have tried several searches using different name/number combinations and hit the same brick walls.
ReplyDeleteCan I ask how you know that the number is 25059?
Paul
Hi, my grandad was Charles Edward Cannon. We have his medals and a certificate showing he was with the KOYLIs. his number was 66153. Are you able to give any sort of date of when or where he joined up from this number please? Many thanks
ReplyDeleteHello, searching for info on my great uncle, who was in Hong Kong, China in 1911 with the military 1st KOYLI.
ReplyDeleteArthur french dob1889 b.Bulwell, Nottingham. He was a private aged 22 in 1911
His no . maybe 9261.(he joined London Artists for ww1)
He may have married whilst in h k-- family info sketchy -he may have had a son.Rumours of wife& son killed in afire in H K.
Any info most gratefully received .diana
Diana, thanks for commenting but regret that since August I have no longer been undertaking unpaid research projects. Please see the research tab at the top of this page.
ReplyDeleteAngie, thanks for commenting but regret that since August I have no longer been undertaking unpaid research projects. Please see the research tab at the top of this page. The number is a late one but would need to research it to give a more considered response.
ReplyDeletemy great great uncle was Private 14841 David Erasmus, A Coy, 2nd/4th Bn KOYLI, KIA November 20th 1917 on the first day of the battle of Cambrai, I have a postcard written by 2nd Lt Frank Cocker to Davids mother asking after him, in the postcard he states the last time he saw my uncle he was "doing some fine work rescuing men under very trying conditions"
ReplyDeleteIs there any way of finding out about any medal records, war records any further information at all about David Erasmus?
Many thanks
Richard
Hello Richard
ReplyDeleteThere does not appear to be a surviving service record for this man but medal rolls indicate he served with the 8th, 9th and finally, 2/4th Battalions. Research would uncover when he joined up and possibly when he transferred. This in turn would you enable to consult the relevant war diaries.
best wishes
Paul
Hello Paul
ReplyDeleteAn elderly friend of mine is trying to find info a relative Alfred Willis (Private or Corporal 4682964). I'm looking at various sites and I think he was in the 1st Battalion. He has his medal card which shows he enlisted on 15.4.08 but was only in France from 15.1.15.Ive found where he fought on the web but the battalion went to Greece but this isn't on his card
Can you help thanks
Martin E, Middlesbrough
Martin, can you drop me a line to paulcanixon@yahoo.co.uk please, and attach the medal card when you do so. I'm struggling to find this man.
ReplyDeleteThanks
Paul
Hi Paul
ReplyDeleteWondered if you could make sense of something. My great uncle, Private Jonathan Pearson (7093) served with 1/4th KOYL. He is listed as "dying in service" at 13th General Hospital Boulogne and is buried in Boulogne Eastern Cemetery. He obviously didn't die of wounds so is there any way I can find out what happened to him?
Many thanks
Karen
Karen, Soldiers Died in The Great War records that he died of wounds. Paul
ReplyDeleteHi Paul
ReplyDeleteYou have helped so many people and I wondered if you could do the same for me?
I have found my Great Great Grandfather's Marriage certificate (01 Jan 1916) and it says he was Private Earnest Williamson of KOYLI (is this normal as he was from Derby and all his brothers joined The Worcestershire and Sherwood Foresters Regiment?). On the certificate he is listed as KOYLI 230 and it is stamped by the regiment as KOYLI 10230/51. Can you tell me what these numbers mean so I can hopefully work out his battalion please? I have also been told he was injured and I wondered if you had any information on that?
Many thanks
Tony
Tony, 10230 was his regimental number and he served with the 1st and 2nd Battalions of the KOYLI.
ReplyDeleteHi Paul
ReplyDeleteI recently acquired a military medal to Sergeant F.S Bloor 3/1077 K.O.York.L.I ....his medal card says 1st Battalion 21.4.15 to 14.2.19 by his service number when did he join up and also there is no mention of him in the Gazette?
thanks for any info
david
David, I am sorry but I do not have that information to hand and would need to research it.
ReplyDeleteHi. I am researching my grandfather robert joseph whyte who was a private in the koyli sweetheart and fought at arris where he was captured as a power. Any help would be appreciated
ReplyDeleteDo you know when he was born, Dianna?
ReplyDeleteHi
ReplyDeletei have found a postcard saying my great grandfather. On the back is this information...
Pte H Johnson (H being for Harry)
No 4683897
KOYLI
Detachment
P Hut (I think it says this)
Strensall Camp
It also says Sept: 18/22
51 Broughton Road
Park Estate
Leicestershire
Can you find any information at all about this man? Date of birth, service records, anything.
Thanks
His record may still be with the MoD as he was serving in 1922. The number dates to 1920 onwards.
ReplyDeleteHi Paul,
ReplyDeleteThis is a very interesting blog that I have come across researching my Gt Granddad. I have his service number 3/9785 and he served with the 2nd Bn KOYLI and was KIA in 1916. Using 9785, is his enlistment about 1907? I'm curious, because in the census of 1911 his occupation is not listed as a soldier. I just wondered if I'm reading the information you have correctly.
Thank you.
Hello Chris, don't confuse the regimental numbers issued to the regular battalions, with those issued from another series to the 3rd (Special Reserve) Battalion. If you would like more detail on this man and his service, please drop me a line via the RESEARCH tab.
ReplyDeletePaul
Hi Paul , would you know when my grandfather samuel gibbs joined up in the koyli , his service number was 8032. he was he was born in 1889 and was young when he joined .they put him in the band..
ReplyDeleteregards mike gibbs
Hi, I am trying to find enlistment details for my great uncle Pte.Fred Looking 2410 KOYLI, died 28/07/1915, buried Talana Farm Cemetery, Ypres. Any help would be greatly appreciated. His head stone reads " believed to be buried in this Cemetery". Thanks Charles
ReplyDeleteMike
ReplyDeleteRe 8032, from the information on this post, 1903 if he joined the regular battalions. He would have joined up as a boy and so joining the band makes sense.
Paul
Charles
ReplyDeleteAs a deceased soldier there will be various resources to check: Soldiers Died in The Great War, Commonwealth War Graves Commission, Soldiers' Effects Register, medal card, medal rolls, possibly a service record, possibly other rolls, newspapers... If a service record does not survive it would still be possible to work out when he enlisted. Contact me through the research tab if you want more help.
Paul
Hi Paul,
ReplyDeleteI am trying to find a date of enlistment for my great grandfather, Edgar Hoult. He was in B Company, 1st Battalion, Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry. His regimental number was 30271. I have his record of being killed in action, and his final (posthumous) pay (£8, 3s, 4d) - but am unsure of when he joined the regiment. Can you shed any light?
I would need to research that, John. Please see the research tab on this blog.
ReplyDeletePaul
Dear Paul,
ReplyDeleteI'm trying to find out more information on my g/grandfather Private Frank Chamberlain who was in the 9th battalion K.O.Y.L.I, i have his army number as 43587 and the date he was KIA 8th June 1917, is there a way i could find out more about him?
Rgds
Marc Smith
You'll need access to Ancestry or Findmypast in order to run searches across the various military collections. Alternatively, please follow the instructions on the Research tab if you would like me to assist.
ReplyDeleteMy great-grandfather Colour Sergeant William Augustus Page 1783 evidently enlisted 1884/5. He married in Malta in November 1885. His wife was Mary Ann Briggs, daughter of Robert Denny Briggs, who I think was also in the British Army. They had a daughter born in Malta in August 1886. The KOYLI then sailed to Karachi and were then garrisoned in Quetta. W A Page died 18 April 1888, the day after his son was born. On 8th May their daughter died. And in October Mary Ann died. Their son, also William Augustus, came back to the UK with his grandparents and was living in Bradford barracks in 1891. I cannot find service records for WA Page. I understand that they don't exist if a soldier died, rather than being discharged. Is this correct? Also, I cannot find any record of whether there are gravestones for these three family members. Would the army erect these, or would it be dependent on relatives? Hoping that you can give me some answers. Thanks, Penny Whitney (nee Page)
ReplyDeleteHello Penny
ReplyDeleteThat's a sad story. You're correct. If a soldier died his file would subsequenrly have been destroyed, the Ministry of Pensions, (without due regard for future generations of family historians), reasoning that as these men would never be claiming pensions, there was no need to retian their files.
Burial registers for the deaths may survive in the India Office collection which has been digitised by Finfmypast. The headstones would, I think, have been paid for by the army. I have seen plenty of headstones in India which were provided by regiments but I have no documentary evidence or reference on this. Also Google FIBIS and make some enquiries there.
Paul
Hi paul,
ReplyDeleteI have a silk postcard from one of my ancestors and I cant trace him in any census. His address is shown as 4 lines 53 ys K O Y L I Clipstone Camp. his Service no is hard to read but it looks like 5/29249? His surname is Austin and the forename looks to begin with j could be Jim? Any help with the date of his posting to Clipstone, his age, when he served or ,well, just anything really would be very much appreciated. He would have come from Coseley or Bilston Wolverhampton staffs.
many thanks
Sue
Hello Sue. 53 YS will be s reference to the 53rd (Young Soldiers) Battalion and the regimental number may be the Training Reserve. If he did serve overseas it would not have been with this unit but possibly with another KOYLI battalion. The card probably dates to no earlier than September 1917 and your man was probably therefore born in 1898 or 1899.
ReplyDeleteHi paul
ReplyDeleteI am looking for any information on my great grandfather sgt William Philip Jones. I have seen 2numbers 240895 and 1204 on a 1921 medal list. He died of his wounds back at home in 1917. I wonder if you have anything you can tell me about where he might have served or received his wounds.
Many thanks
John steele
Re Sgt William Philip Jones.
ReplyDeleteI could give you a full report on this man, John, but it would be a research project for me. Please see the RESEARCH tab on this blog.
Paul, do you by any chance have data on Special Reservist service numbers in the KOYLI? I ask as I have a man with the service number 8979 (John Thomas Hollands) who, according to his hospital record, had nine years' service to his credit by October 1914. Obviously that doesn't fit with a regular enlistment between May '07 and Sept '08 so I wanted to exclude the possibility that he was a Special Reservist before reverting to my basic assumption, which is that either the medical orderly or transcriber made a mistake! I note from the medal roll that he went out the same day (1 October 1914) as 3/384 Pte W Lawson, who I assume from the number may have been a Special Reservist. This may be suggestive or may not! Thanks as ever, Anthony
ReplyDeleteHello Anthony, I'll write a post about this shortly.
ReplyDeleteThanks Paul, I look forward to reading it!
ReplyDeleteSince published here: http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.co.uk/2017/12/3rd-special-reserve-battalion-kings-own.html
ReplyDeleteSadly my GGGrandfather joined in 1821...314 Pte Joseph Abbott.
ReplyDeleteYes, that's a little out of scope for this particular blog.
ReplyDeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteWe have a fair bit of info on my Gt Granfather Fred Cotton, KOYLI 38611, he won 4 medals including MM and we know he was demobbed as a Sjt but we have a random picture of him as a Cpl in what appears to be a nursing area / hospital in grey looking fatigues/ hospital uniform. He survived the war and we never found out what he did for his MM. He shared very little of his time or story. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Kind regards,
Craig
Paul
ReplyDeleteThank you for this website and blog. We knew my 2nd Great Uncle, Herbert Ingle, had previously served because of his low regimental number (6850). Your research has certainly helped mine - much appreciated.
Sharon
I am researching my grandmother's 2nd husband Benjamin Stroner, of South Yorks Regt, service number 1876, who served from 1885 to 1900.
ReplyDeleteI am interested in where he served, and the expeditions he took part in, can you provide any details?
I have to repeat the message which is very clearly stated on the comments' page. Thank you for visiting this blog. Please note that if your comment concerns research about a particular individual, you should read the RESEARCH tab at the top of the page.
ReplyDeleteSharon, thanks for taking the time to comment.
ReplyDeleteHello Paul I don't know whether you can help but any help or guidance would be appreciated my grandfather John Joseph Whensley 37345 Yorkshire L I 1914 1920 his year of birth 1899 Eldon Co Durham although he survived the great war he died before I was born and other than his two medals that my father left me I have no information regarding his service history WW1 or indeed a photograph could either or both be obtained. Kindest regards
ReplyDeleteRe 37345 John J Whensley. Thanks for commenting, Lou. I don;t believe a service record survives for this man but it woukd be possible to work out when he joined up, posisbly provide details of the unit/s he served with in the UK prior to the KOYLI, and posisbly when he arrived overseas. He served overseas with the 8th KOYLI.
ReplyDeleteRegarding photos, have a read here:
http://armyancestry.blogspot.com/2016/12/finding-photo-of-your-british-military.html
and here:
https://britisharmyancestors.co.uk/blog/finding-photographs-british-army-ancestors/
To pursue the research I mentioned above, please contact me via the RESEARCH tab on this blog.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSuzanne Moss, you commented "Hiya Paul.My great grandad was in the Kolyi..his name John Moss...pte.number 8133..but the koli were taken prisioner in1915.." Inexplicably you then followed this up with a defamatory email to me.
ReplyDeleteI need to correct you on a few points. You mis-transcribed the correct number I published for John Moss which was 8113. It's KOYLI, not koli; prisoner, not prisioner.
I have complete and total respect for all those who have served and continue to serve their King and Country and had you asked nicely, I would have been more than happy to assist you. As it is, I can tell you that John Moss served overseas from X and he was captured at X in X (it was 1914, not 1915) and was subsequently interned as a PoW at X and X, having sustained a X to his X. You need to get your facts right - and learn some manners.
Hi Paul, am researching my great Grandfather, the only thing I have to go on is that he was a bugler in KOYLI and a then 1502 in brackets, this information was recorded on my Grandmothers 1916 birth certificate. There is family talk of him joining underage wen he was found out they made him the mascot and then bugler for the regiment but I don't know how true this is. He was born in 1897 and moved from Yorkshire to Wolverhampton which is where he lived at the time of my grandmothers birth.
ReplyDeleteHi Paul, Ive found the great war for civailisation Medal on my land. No A7544 H Oldroyde K.O.L.I On it. Im wondering if youve any information? Ide love to be able to find a living ancestor
ReplyDelete47544 Herbert Oldroyd served overseas with the 1st Bn, discharged 9th March 1919. No service record survives which, combined with a common name, will mae searching for relatives nigh on impossible. My advice (after having explored all the options in the 1911 census), keep the medal and enjoy it.
ReplyDeleteHello, apparently members of the 51st King's Own Light Infantry accompanied convicts to Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania),between 1836 and 1844. A number went on to Western Australia before being sent on to India. Others stayed in Tasmania and made lives there, including my gg grandfather, William Harrison. Excellent records have been kept of convict names but very little of individual servicemen's details. Regards, SF, Australia
ReplyDeleteHello Paul. I have just found your site.. My great uncle was in KOYLI, 2nd Battalion I believe. His service number was 42306. He was killed in action in April 1917 during the German retreat to the Hindenburg Line. As he was killed, does this mean there will be records of his service, not even the date when he joined up?
ReplyDeleteHello Paul. I have just found your site.. My great uncle was in KOYLI, 2nd Battalion I believe. His service number was 42306. He was killed in action in April 1917 during the German retreat to the Hindenburg Line. As he was killed, does this mean there will be records of his service, not even the date when he joined up?
ReplyDeleteRe Alfred Knott, it would be possible to work out from his number when he joined up and possibly with which unit and where he trained in the UK, possibly when he arrived overseas. His service record does not appear to survive but there is more work that could be done to research him. See the RESEARCH tab on this blog.
ReplyDeleteHi. My great uncle, Private 29611 2nd Batallion KOYLI, was killed 3rd April 1917. I had the map co-ordinates where his body was found but have misplaced them. Are there any records that show where his body was found?
ReplyDeleteRegards.
The details are here, Shaun: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/572765/H%20GUNBY/#&gid=2&pid=1
ReplyDeleteDear Paul.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if you could advise on two ancestors of mine.
The first, Private Thomas P Tomlinson, was a member of the volunteer company 2nd Battalion KOYLI in the Boer War, with a service number of 7694. According to your list, that would put him as joining up some time between 1903 and 1904, but he was killed in South Africa in January 1902. I presume he's part of a different list - can you advise when he might have enrolled?
The second, Private Joseph Newbould Goodall, served in KOYLI and the Royal Engineers in WW1. According to his medal card (and his British Medal, which I have), his KOYLI service number was 7850. There are no other military records of him that I can find, but I would love to find a clue of which battalion / company he served with so I could piece together even a fragment of where he went / what he saw. He lived in a village just outside Wakefield, so would have signed up there I guess. I'm also interested in the fact he served with the RE (though his medal specifies only his KOYLI number). Why might that have been, and was it common?
BTW, thanks for everything you do with this site. It's a huge help!
Re Pte Tomlinson, he almost certainly enlisted in Jan 1900. This post on numbering in the VSCs should help: https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2010/05/vsc-duplications.html
ReplyDeleteRe Pte Goodall, he arrived overseas with the KOYLI and later transferred to the REs. I haven't gone into this in detail but my guess would be that he arrived overseas and immediately transferred to the REs in 1916 and that his active service in France was with the REs rather than the KOYLI. The RE numbers date to 1916 and were issued to men in the 'Special Brigade'. See this post: https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2018/09/a-special-company-1st-battalion-special.html
Thanks so much for that Paul. The RE Special Brigade information has been a massive 'unlock' for me. There was always a story in the family that Pte Goodall (Pioneer Goodall, as it turns out) was gassed by his own gas (so to speak). He was also a piece dyer by trade, so worked with chemicals before joining up. It all fits together nicely. I since discovered that he was included in the War Office casualty list for 28 June 1918 with the RE, so am going to try to drill down to see if I can unearth any inkling of his battalion / company (starting with old copies of the Ossett Observer). I'm also going to dig into various books about the Special Brigade to see what they can tell me. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
ReplyDeleteThanks for taking the trouble to say, 'thank you', Tim; many don't. I wish you well with your research.
ReplyDeleteHi, I have my great grandfathers WW1 medals and death plaque. I know he died on 13 April 1918 and his number on his medals is 10/1271. He was in the KOYLI. I am struggling to find much about his time in the war and where his headstone is placed. I do know his body was never recovered. Could you point me in the right direction? Many thanks Dawn
ReplyDeleteI can see a 12/1271 Fred Hattersley. Is that him? Let me know if you need help researching him: paulcanixon@gmail.com
ReplyDeleteHi Paul, I'm trying to find some information on my Great Uncle Stephen Slattery. I have very little information - although a cousin has said that she believes he was a 'bugler' in the army. He would have been very young and lived in Halifax, West Yorkshire.
ReplyDeleteI've found a Stephen Slattery reg. no. 4657 serving with the Yorks LI 3/4th Battalion and I wondered if it might be him? There's no age given so I wondered if there was any more information available? Thanks David.
I have an ancestor called James Carney who was a Lance Corporal in the KOYLI, number 5951 (3/5951)
ReplyDeleteDavid, re Slattery. This man was discharged sick in Jnauary 1916 and never served overseas. No age given.
ReplyDeleteHello Paul, to add to the database in case you don't have him:
ReplyDelete8576 Pte George Graham, King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry. Silver War Badge roll entry has him as having enlisted on 23 September 1904. Other sources suggest that he would have been aged about 17. Regards, Anthony
Thanks Anthony; didn't have him but he fits nicely into the pattern I have for the regular battalions.
ReplyDeleteHi Paul, I’m trying to understand the entry for Fred Mills Winterbottom in the World War I Service Medal and Award Rolls located on Ancestry. If 203122 is his service, what is the 4 digit number – 5152? Is 1/4th Yorks L. I. the first division of the 4th battalion? Also, can you tell me what 5th North’d Fus stands for? Many Thanks, Karen
ReplyDelete5152 was his original number. 203122 was the number that he was issued in 1917 when the Territorial Force was re-numbered. 1/4th = 1st line, 4th Battalion. 2/4th would be second line or reserve battalion. 5th Northumberland Fusiliers.
ReplyDeleteStarting the journey to find details on Private TM Little or Thomas Middleton Little. SN 24728. Buried in Salonika. Believe he was 1st Battalion KOYLI. Can't find too much on his regimental career on Forces War Records apart from his death on the 8th March 1917 and possibly some orbat details.
ReplyDeleteHi Paul we have details of a soldier who we belief to be my grandfather. Is there a way to cross reference a Reg No. & name to next of kin details?
ReplyDelete@Alan Cook. It will be possible to work out when he enlisted, and the war diary probably survives at The National Archives and could be copied.
ReplyDelete@Katrina. No, not possible if a service record or pension card does not survive. Have you checked?
ReplyDeleteHi - According to the medal role my gt grandad served with the 6th and 7th Btn KOYLI and he is buried in Bertincoutt Cemetary in France. Thomas William Simpson 41549 was killed on 30/03/1917. He is one of two soldiers from his regiment killed on this day in 1917 in this cemetary. I have found his pension card and a few other bits but nothing that details when he may have joined up. Is there a way I can determine where and when he joined up so I can maybe track down where he was from the regimental diaries etc.. Thankyou
ReplyDeleteSearch on Ancestry/Fndmypast for men with numbers close to 41549. If you find that 41550 joined on the 1st Jan 1917 than 41549 probably joined on the same day, or a day or two either side. That's the theory. Drop me a line at paul@britisharmyancestors.co.uk if you would be interested in me undertaking research on your behalf.
ReplyDeleteHello, just an enquiry about a number (@150) of KOYLI soldiers who were captured and held as POW’s from 29 Nov 1914 until 13 Dec 1918. I cannot decipher where they were held but it seems to read Camp Sens. Was this a POW camp and is it known what was the troop /corp or unit that were captured. The details are on a soldiers record Wilfred Wright service no 8832 who enlisted, age 17 at Sheffield on 15 March 1906.
ReplyDeleteAny explanation of circumstances of their battle would be appreciated. Thank you and congratulations on the work that you have done with these military records. Chris