22 June 2009

York and Lancaster Regiment - 1st and 2nd Battalions


This post will look at army service numbers and the dates on which these were issued to men joining the 1st and 2nd Battalions of the York & Lancaster Regiment. The period covered is July 1881 to July 1914. What follows is a snapshot from a larger database of Y&L numbers and joining dates.

The regiment was formed in July 1881. The 1st Battalion, York & Lancs was formerly the 65th (2nd Yorkshire, North Riding) Regiment of Foot. The 2nd Battalion, York & Lancs was formerly the 84th (York & Lancaster) Regiment of Foot. The new regimental title was derived from the areas in which the regiment recruited - principally the Duchy of York and the Duchy of Lancaster.

There are over 73,000 York & Lancaster Regiment service & pension records (for this regiment - and its antecedents) in various War Office series held at the National Archives. Clicking on the link will take you to the results on Findmypast but you will need a subscription or Pay-Per-View credits to actually view the records. Some of these records can also be viewed on-line on Ancestry although Findmypast has by far the most comprehensive service record collection.

Use the regimental numbers and dates on which these were issued, below, to determine parameters for when your own York & Lancaster Regiment ancestor would have joined up. Note though that these numbers are only for regular enlistments. Special Reserve and Territorial Force battalions operated completely separate regimental number sequences.

25 joined on 16th July 1881
261 joined on 7th February 1882
579 joined on 13th January 1883
798 joined on 12th March 1884
1063 joined on 9th January 1885
1361 joined on 9th January 1886
1751 joined on 26th January 1887
2200 joined on 21st February 1888
2566 joined on 26th March 1889
2696 joined on 5th January 1890
2902 joined on 9th January 1891
3227 joined on 27th January 1892
3654 joined on 6th February 1893
3925 joined on 30th June 1894
4161 joined on 26th January 1895
4626 joined on 17th March 1896
4813 joined on 4th January 1897
5244 joined on 22nd September 1898
5348 joined on 23rd January 1899
6216 joined on 15th June 1900

Note that between 1900 and 1902, those Volunteers from the 1st Hallamshire Volunteer Battalion and 2nd Volunteer Battalion who joined the regular battalions of the York and Lancs Regt were issued with numbers in the 7000 and 8000 range.

6361 joined on 8th March 1901
6884 joined on 17th July 1902
7245 joined on 30th January 1903
7702 joined on 21st March 1904
8217 joined on 5th January 1905
8375 joined on 23rd January 1906
8584 joined on 14th January 1907
9048 joined on 25th January 1908
9405 joined on 8th February 1909
9792 joined on 24th May 1910
9922 joined on 1st July 1911
10052 joined on 22nd January 1912
10313 joined on 4th January 1913
10558 joined on 11th July 1914

When Britain went to war with Germany three weeks later, men joining the newly formed service battalions (with the exception of the Pals Battalions which had their own number series), were issued numbers from the series which had, up until that point in time, been used only by the two regular battalions.

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87 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hi
My Great uncle was with the York &Lancaster Regt #8962, and with the Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry #39001.
Does this suggest he actually enlisted in 1907 and then due to army reorganisation he was given a new number or that he had left and rejoined the army?

Paul Nixon said...

Hello there

8962 for the York and Lancs can only have been issued in 1907 and it would have been between 22nd and 28th October that year.

I see that George Darcey's medal card (MIC)only refers to his KOYLI number so that's the outfit he landed overseas with.

Going back to 1907, he probably enlisted for regular terms of enlistment which would have meant that he served seven years with the Colours and was on the Reserve (and therefore liable for call-up) when Britain went to war with Germany in August 1914. For whatever reason though - ill health perhaps - he obviously did not go overseas with the York & Lancs and may have been discharged from the army as medically unfit, only to re-enlist later.

The other scenario is that he was retained on the staff of the York and Lancs and then transferred to the KOYLI later in the war. His MIC indicates a senior NCO rank and that would tie in with a man who had previous military experience.

39001 looks to me to date to about Sept or Oct 1916 and I see that he was killed in action on 23rd March 1918. Presumably you got the York & Lancs number from his entry on Soldiers Died in The Great War?

Hope this helps anyway.

Paul Nixon

Anonymous said...

Thanks a lot for the info.
Apparently he was a Company Sgt Major in the KOYL and was killed in March 1918.Cant trace any military records for him apart from medal card, found his Y&L number on Ancestry site.
He is buried at Tyne Cot.

Paul Nixon said...

You're very welcome.

A tip for you: join the Great War Forum (Google that term) and in the Soldiers sub-forum post a new topic with your great uncle's name and ask for information about him. As a CSM I would imagine that he may get a mention in the war diary so you need to find a KOYLI expert who has a copy of the diary for that date. In any event even if he is not mentioned by name, you'll get an idea from the diary of how he died. Obviously, that was during the German offensive which was launched on 21st March 1918.

Good luck with your research.

Paul Nixon

keeper said...

Hello,we dug up a Territorial Efficiency Medal in the garden.On the edge is engraved 8535 WOCL 11 G.Darren 5-Y & L R.
Could you please help find more information & translate the engraving.
Thank you.

Paul Nixon said...

8535 Warrant Officer 2nd Class G.Darren 5th Bn,York and Lancs Regt.

He was a sergeant, later Warrant Officer 1st Class during WW1. Received British War and Victory Medals, TF War Medal, TF Medal, and the TEM that you have (which dates to 1924). Keep digging, you might find the other medals!

His service papers and medal index card are on Ancestry. Click any of the ancestry links on my site to get there. You'll then need to pay a small sum to access his records - about six pounds I think.

stingwit said...

Hi My Grandfather served in WW1 with the Yorks & Lancs his army service number is 3-3481. He has the thee standard issue WW1 medals. I beleive the prefix 3 on his number denotes he 3rd Battalion but i cannot find any information on his service with this unit. i do know he told me he served in the galipoli campaign?. but i can find no record of his unit at that camaign. if you could help in any way we would be gratefull.

Paul Nixon said...

The 3rd Battalion did not serve overseas but you're correct that is number belongs to the series in use by this battalion.

The number dates to August 1914 and it would appear that William Tuckwood was subsequently posted to another battalion - probably the 6th, which served in Egypt. Check the medal rolls at the National Archives to confirm his battalion and then, once you know that, have a look at the war diary.

William was discharged from the army on 4th Feb 1919.

Anonymous said...

Hi Paul
I have obtained the medal card for my grandad, Ernest Chapman, he had the Victory and British medals [R.E.]. He was in Y & L R, no. 29415, then R.E. no 236223, then no WR/264252.
Can you give me any information on this?.I would be grateful for any help you can give
Molly

Paul Nixon said...

Molly

I have several numbers for the Y&L who all joined the 16th (Transport Workers) Battalion in late July 1916. However, there are some 294** numbers who joined the 3rd (Reserve) Battalion in August 1916. I can't help you on the RE numbers, I'm afraid, but the WR/ prefix stands for Waterworks and Railways.

Paul

Anonymous said...

Hi Paul,
Thanks for the info on Ernest Chapman, it was very useful and helps me to track him just a little more.
Thanks again
Molly

Anonymous said...

I would like to know if there is anyway to trace my uncle's record. He joined the 2nd Battalion York & Lancs Reg. He enlisted on 1-10-17 His Regt No# was 8947. His brother had the #9380. They were both in a Volunteer Reg, before that in Sheffield, and the Boys Brigade previously. His brother #9380 (a younger uncle) was KIA on 23 October 1914, near the Chateau de Flandres. my uncle, was severely wounded. Both bothers were together. I have the War Diary and papers for my youngest uncle. My eldest uncle's record, did not survive the 11nd WW London bombing. It is known that at some point (I don't know when, my eldest uncle was transferred to the Lab. Corps# 502186. There is also a notation L.C. 641st. He was discharged 18-2-18. I would like to know if there were records for this work unit! I have the Medal Rolls for both uncles. There is a curious notation for the elder one as follows cause of discharge AO 265/14 Para a.1.S. Also another notation on the same document Action taken:
List L.C. 1029 Badge No. 331577 brought in by Police. I believe he may have gone A.W.O.L. at some point.He had marital problems. I am not clear when any of this would have taken place, but was hoping to pinpoint some kind of record, which would give me more info. He requested his a) badge (silver service medal) 6.1.19 No of file LB/5132. He had previously earned the Victory medal under LC/101 B185 page 18503
KL star 0/2/2 page 32. Lastly it notes, Trans/discharged... He entered the Theatre of War in France with his brother on 9-9-14. The last note on this document says Transfd/disch. Any light you can cast on this matter would be appreciated. Anonymous...

Paul Nixon said...

Was their name DIXON? If you can confirm that, I can have a bit more of a dig. I presume you mean that he enlisted in October 1907 rather than 1917.

The reference to List L.C. 1029 Badge No. 331577 relates to the Labour Corps (LC) silver war badge roll and specifically the badge (numbered on the back 331577) which was handed in by the police. It was not uncommon for these badges to come unfastened and fall off.

You might find a war diary for the 641st Labour Company and in any event you should certainly go to this site: http://www.labourcorps.co.uk/Index.html and perhaps contact the author.

Paul

Anonymous said...

Hi Paul,thankyou for the reply.Yes I should have put Jan 10 1907, sorry for the error. Yes these two uncles of mine were Dixons. I would very much like to know when the elder brother C.F. Dixon was transferred to the Labour unit, and where they would have been, from about 1914 - 1918. I will take up your suggestion about the Labour Units online. The younger brother 'Drummer' Arthur Dixon was buried at Ration Farm Military Cemetery. I have a photo of his grave.
I do have another puzzle, There was another C.F. Dixon who signed up in 1917 I believe in London, he was serving according to a document I have; in the 2nd Yorks Battalion of Bayswater in 1917. Was this Regiment, also known as the 'Green Howards'? I do not have a Regimental # for him.
If you can direct me to any other information I would appreciate it, and thank you for your insight into the Badge situation re my uncle.
Lastly my 3Xs Great Grandfather, yet another C. Dixon (exactly 100 years before,his great, great grandsons enlisted in 1907) had enlisted in the Royal Artillery, in 1807. He was sent to Canada in 1808 and later to the Battle of Waterloo. 1815. He arrived in time to hear the firing of the guns at Waterloo, but was wounded when an Artillery Canon fell on his leg and foot. He was wounded on the march, then pensioned off. 6d per Diem. I was wondering if you would know the names of any badges,or medals etc which these men of the Royal Artillery would likely have been entitled to at that time for their service,is their any place which would have pictures of these items, or descriptions of the same...I do have a drawing of his uniform. He was sent to Quebec Canada in 1808. His wife went with him.He was an Artilleryman /Bombardier. according to evidence I have. I also have the Muster Rolls for this Co., as well as the pay records. Thanks again...

Paul Nixon said...

It looks as though you've already done some fairly comprehensive research; well done.

The labour Corps is not a regiment I've touvhed at all and so your best bet would be the Labour Corps link (and its author) that I referred you to earlier.

The Yorkshire Regiment was known unofficially as The Green Howards until 1920 when it became the official title of the regiment. The name though, dates back to 1744. Read more here: http://www.greenhowards.org.uk/index.php?submenuheader=100

The only C Dixon listed on the Waterloo Medal Roll that I could find was Charles Dixon and he sereved with the cavalry. However, your ancestor would have been entitled to the Waterloo Medal.

Hope this helps.

Ian Keeling said...

Ian Keeling

I'm researching my Great Grandfathers Service Record up to his death 08/05/1915 in France.

His name was John Walter Butcher and his service number is 3/3952. Does this mean he must have enlisted between June 1894 and January 1895?

He and his brother joined together, their father was a territorial and fought in some african campaign. I've not researched him yet.

I'm assuming that JW butcher was a Territorial or Special Reservist hence 3rd Battalion, which I believe existed to supply reinforcements to 1 and 2 battallions.

I also assume that he must have been sent as a reinforcement to 1st Battalion when it was recalled from India at the start of the war.

As I think only the 1st battalion was in action at Ypres by the time of his death on 08/05/1915.

Any advice would be welcome.

Ian

Paul Nixon said...

Hello Ian

3/3952 dates to between the 1st and 3rd September 1914 and you're correct in noting that the 3/ prefix denotes the 3rd (Special Reserve) Battalion, your great grandfather then being posted to a regular (or service) battalion but retaining his Special Reserve battalion number.

Paul

Stuart Jackson said...

Hello. My wife's grandfather was Frederick Charles Moore and had a regiment number of 8666 in the 1st Batt of the York & Lancs. He was posted to France in WW1 but then moved quickly to Salonika. We know that he was mentioned in despatches, and was awarded the French Medaille de Honneur avec Glaives in Bronze. My wife has the paperwork for these awards but the medal itself is elsewhere. However, I am unable to find out any more details as to the how and why of his award. I have tried numerous times to find him in the London Gazette but have been unsuccessfull there and his army records on Ancestry are incomplete, and in fact appear to be mixed up with another Frederick Charles Moore. Can you help please. Thank you.

Paul Nixon said...

Tricky really. His MIC does not indicate an MiD which is usually signalled by the abbreviation "emb" for the oak leaf emblem. Trying to find anybody on Gazettes online is also difficult at the best of times. Have you approached the regimental museum or had a look through the war diary?

NDS said...

My great cousin was Lt. Patrick Leete Smith, wounded at Loos 25th Sept 1915 and died 27th Sept. He is burried at Lillers. I was surprised to find that he was a Lieutenant at 18 years. In the 1911 census he is listed as a student/cadet attending school in Liverpool area. Was it common to be an officer so young. Where might I find add'l info. Thanks from the Canadian ancestor.

Stuart Jackson said...

Hello Paul. Reference my enquiry for Frederick Charles Moore, reg no 8666. Thank you for your reply. Yes I did in fact contact the chap who looks after the regiment's information and it is from him that I learned as much information as I have now, however he could not enlighten me regarding the MiD or the French medal. He did say that the overall command of this area of conflict was under a French General, and that it was possible that this explained the award. Frederick also apparently became a Lance Corporal after the MiD so presumably this was as a result of whatever action had occured? I'm afraid I shall have to continue with the London Gazette trail but I must say I have spent many, many hours searching that without success. Thanks again Paul.

Stuart

Paul Nixon said...

NDS

It was not uncommon to be a young officer but to be a Lieutenant at the age of 18 suggests that he showed promise, to say the least.

I see that his medal index card is in the name of Patrick Leslie Smith and that he arrived in France in September 1915. There are a number of other avenues you could pursue but you'd need to hire a researcher to help you:

1. Service record which may well exist in WO 374 or WO 339
2. War Diary for the 10th Bn. He will almost certainly get a mention as having been wounded and maybe DoW as well. It may also mention him by name when he joined the Bn
3. The London Gazette should have details of his commissions but it can be painful to search, and the surname SMITH doesn't help. If a service record does exist, it won't be necesssary to trawl through the London Gazette.
4. Medal Index Card which you probably have already

If you'd like me to quote for 1. and 2. above, let me know. It shouldn't be too arduous (or expensive) to arrange.

Paul

Paul Nixon said...

Stuart

Have you joined the Great War Forum? If you've not done so it would certainly be worthwhile doing so and posting your query there too: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/

Paul

Cheryl said...

Hi,

My Grandfather was with the York& Lancaster Regiment #4123194. His name was Nicholas Thomas Oats.
Is there any information you could tell me please?

Paul Nixon said...

Cheryl

That number is beyond the scope of this site I'm afraid. It looks to be a post 1920 number but it doesn't fit within the series issued to the York and Lancs Regt which was 4736001 to 4792000. 4123194 appears to fall within the range of numbers issued to the Cheshire Regiment.

Paul

bob Kirk said...

On his WW1 Army Record Joseph Frank SLATER said he purchased himself out of the Yorks and Lancaster regiment in 1890. He gave an army number of 2511. I believe he changed his name at some point prior to 1886. Any information would be welcomed.

Bob Kirk

Paul Nixon said...

Bob, I've had a look in the pension records in WO 97 but there's nothing there for a man with that number in the Y&L. The closest I get to is 2510 who signed up for 7&5 with the regiment at Pontefract on the 31st January 1889. 2513 joined on the 2nd Feb 1889 at York, so I'd suggest that that narrows down your man's likely joining date quite nicely.

Paul

sophie heptinstall said...

Hi Paul,
My Great Great Grandfather Pte Albert Wood 18777, 9th Bn York and Lancaster Regiment was killed 1st July 1916, Was this the battle of Albert ? could you find any other information for me or advise where is the best place to look.
Kind regards, Sophie

Paul Nixon said...

Sophie, May he Rest in Peace.

From British Battalions on The Somme:

"Attack on Ovillers. Followed 8th King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry and 8th York & Lancaster Regiment. Almost half of attacking force lost in No Man's Land by machine gun fire from Thiepval Spur. War Diary records out of 25 officers and 736 other ranks, just 180 returned."

sophie said...

Thank you Paul

colin said...

Hi Paul
my grandfather was in the York and Lanc's and has 2 service numbers i have his medal roll and a photograph of him in uniform but can find very little else about him , He was called Samuel George Mead service no's 18895 and 4736382 would he have been transferred or have had a break in service.
Also he seems to have had the wrong initial on one of his medals .
I would be delighted if you could find anymore information on him as the stories my father tells me about him are quite colourful
thank you
Colin

Paul Nixon said...

Colin, it's possible that the MoD still has his service record. His medal index card indicates that he served after WW1 and his second, longer number belongs to a new seried of numbers begun in 1920. So it would appear that your grandfather re-enlisted in the regular army and then saw service in modern-day Iran. As well as receiving the three WW1 medals he also received the General Service Medal with the clasp, N W Persia. It was this medal which had the initials SJ impressed rather than SG although a correction was authorised.

As regards his original 5 digit number, this dates to Feb/Mar 1915.

Paul

Malcolm Diggines said...

Hi Paul,
My wife's grandfather, Frederick Charles Brown, was a private in the 2nd East Lancashire Regiment and his first service number was 8881. Can you tell me the date he enlisted and any clue to his age and where he came from?
Thanks,
Malcolm

Paul Nixon said...

Hello Malcolm

The number dates to late April or early May 1906 but I see from his medal index card that he didn't actually go overseas until post 31/12/1915 and subsequently joined the RAF. Have you checked the AIR files at The national Archives, or been in touch with the RAF museum at Hendon? I'm afraid I can't tell how old he was or where he came from, and the fact that he joined the East Lancs initially MAY have been because he was living in Lancashire but just as easily MAY have been because a recruiting sergeant happened upon him - or vice versa - when he was living elsewhere. Regiments recruited in their respective counties but also cast their nets much further afield as well.

Paul

Malcolm Diggines said...

Many thanks for your comments. I would like to add though that he claimed that he saw service in Poona, Karachi and Bombay in India also possibly in Mesopotania. This I would have thought would have been before the 1914-18 war. Should this have shown up on his medal card?
Regards,
Malcolm

Paul Nixon said...

Hello Malcolm

No, the WW1 MICs don't cover the period prior to August 1914 but if he qualified for an India General Service Medal, he should be on that particular roll. See my other blog here: http://britisharmymedals.blogspot.co.uk/2010/04/india-general-service-medal-1908-1935.html

Anonymous said...

Hi,
My Grandfather has two service numbers with two separate regiments. The first - which appears on his medals - is 406154, with the King's (Liverpool) regiment. His second number is the York and Lancaster Regt, 35528.I believe - based on hazy childhood memories of talking with him - that it was with the York and Lancaster that he went to France. I dearly loved him, and regret that I was far too young to understand the true significance of all he told me, still less how privileged I was to be able to listen. He was invalided out of service, and spent armistice day in hospital in England recovering from a gas attack. I would love as much detail as can be gleaned about when he joined, his battalion and what actions he took part in, just to put his stories into some kind of context.

Paul Nixon said...

Hello

I'm afraid I don't have anythign really to give you on these numbers. Both look quite late me. Have you tried posting your query on The Great war forum?

DSorry not to be more help.

Phil said...

My grandfather, Edwin Muxlow, enlisted in the York and Lancaster Regiment on 13th August 1912, his regimental number being 10208. He was originally posted to the 1st Bn at Jubbulpore, India, but was transferred to the 2nd Bn on 12th June 1915. He was wounded twice, and reached the rank of Sergeant before being wounded a third time and captured on 21st March 1918.
I am extremely sorry that he died before I became interested enough in my family history to ask him about his experiences. I still have a nasty-looking lump of shrapnel which he picked up on one of the French battlefields. He and his family emigrated to South Australia soon after the war, as offering many more opportunities for him than post-war England.
Has a Regimental History ever been published for the Regular battalions of the Y&L?
Cheers,
Phil (Adelaide, South Australia)

Paul Nixon said...

I'm not aware of a regimental history for these battalions, Phil but you could check out the British Library website perhaps. Pretty sure there is also a bibliography of WW1 regimental histories somewhere. Also check out the Great War Forum and psot a question there.

Thanks for posting.

Paul

Jerome Jones said...

Hi Paul, this is a fantastic blog, well done on the depth covered.

I am trying to find some more information about my great grandfather, George Edward Jones from Rotherham, born Cannock 1879. Using Ancestry, I think I have found his medal and pension records as Y&L regiment, 18110, enlisted 31 Dec 1914. I got the 2 medal rolls from National Archives and it doesn't tell me much more.

What I am trying to find out is a) is it really him - pension record has an address which is less than 1 mile from his known address in 1911 and profession is correct (miner), but age is slightly out. I wondered if there would be any records with discharge address or something? b) I know that theatre of war was 1.France, but I don't know much more than that. Is there any way I can track where a certain regiment was?

He was discharged in 20 Dec 1918, physically unfit for service 392/xv1a. I would love to make some educated guesses about what happened!

Many thanks in advance
Jerome Jones

Paul Nixon said...

Jerome

Sorry for late response. You're doing well to have a service record as many do not survive. You miught find a refercne to him in a local newspaper but Paragraph 392 xvia indicates he was discharged as no longer physically fit for war service. He was also awarded a silver war badge and so would have been discharged a sa result of wounds or sickness.

Kevin Spooner said...

Hi Paul.

I have my grandfathers British war medal, on the side it says: 27201 PTE T SPOONER YORK & LANCS R. his medal index card quotes both 27201 and his labour corp number 18173, I have his enlistment date as 11/12/1915 (in Derby) but there seems to be another number associated with him(58618). I think he may have served in the 17th battalion in France and Belgium, possibly on lines of communication.

Wondered if you could confirm any of this from the above numbers and info.

Thanks.

Kevin Spooner.

Paul Nixon said...

Kevin

27201 for the Y&L dates to May/June 1916 and so that fits with his attestation date, probably as a Derby Scheme recruit, in Dec 1915. Having attested in Dec he could then quite feasibly have been called up in mid 1916 at which point he would have been issued with his number.

18173 for the Labour Corps identifies him as 31st Labour Company, formerly 17th Bn, Y&L.

I can't help with 58618 I'm afraid.

Paul

Anonymous said...

Hi Paul

My great grandfather, George Potter was KIA April 1916 in France, and I would like to find out more information regarding his time in the army and circumstances surrounding his death. I have found his service record and medal card, but can't work out which regiment he was in. He was private 21120, and joined up in 1915. There is also a family rumour that he was initially rejected because of his age (36). How can I find out if this is true?
Thanks
Liz

Paul Nixon said...

Hello Liz

What a shame that he left five children without a father. I see what you mean about his service record. It is very badly water-damaged which has renedered a lot of the text unreadable.

George was KiA on the 21st April 1916 whilst serving with the regular 2nd Battalion of the Yorks & Lancs Regiment. He had joined up the previous year as a wartime-service only recruit and his age certainly would not have been a factor in him being turned down for the army, so that is a family myth.

George was posted from the 3rd Battalion to the 2nd battalion, arriving in France (Rouen) on the 17th March 1916 and so had barely been overseas before he lost his life.

If you can get hold of the war diary for the 2nd Battalion Y&L you should be able to see what the battalion was up to on the day that George was killed, albeit it is unlikely that he'll be mentioned by name. War diaries are housed at The National Archives in Kew.

RIP George Potter.

Ian Wilson said...

Hi Paul

I'm trying to find information of my late Grandad. Born 1899 d1976
Served in WW1 and was I'm told in the Military Police in WW2, serving on The Queen Mary. I have been given two numbers, Yorks & Lancs 47307 & 631783. I would love to know any information about him, the battles he may have been at, date joined etc. Family history states he was commemorated on a memorial (in error) as he was believed to have been killed, most if not all his mates were killed. Any help would be appreciated, even advise on where I should go from here. Thank you in advance, Ian Wilson

Paul Nixon said...

Hello Ian

Unfortunately my data gets thinner the later the war progresses but from the limited information I have for Y&L numbers this high, I would say that it dates to May 1918 onwards. That looks about right for a young soldier born in 1899 who would have been 18 in 1918. 631783 is a Labour Corps number according to his medal index card but I can't tell you any more than that. Maybe try posting the same query on the Great War Forum as there are Labour Corps experts who may be able to tie down the company with which he served.

Paul

naomi said...

Hi i am researching a friends great unle who was in the y and l reg his no was 202615 and his name was urias hingley. He was a miner and my firned was wondering if he was involved in the tunnels that were dug under the battlefields in france i have his medal card his roll no is d/2/102b26. We know he died in france in 1918. Any further info would be greatly appreciated to help me research further thanks

Paul Nixon said...

Re Uria Hingley, there are service papers in WO 363 which still exist for this man. You can view these either at the National Archoves or online via the ancestry.co.uk website.

gail green said...

Hi, I am researching my husbands grandfather Frederick Walter Green from Braithwell Doncaster, born in Rawmarsh Rotherham, who served in the York & Lancaster Regiment in WW1. Unfortunately I have no service number for him, just a photograph showing his cap badge and another group photograph which say on the back "somewhere on the Rhine". He survived the war. Have tried ancestry but it is hard to pinpoint the right info. Is there any advice that you could give so that I can progress, or am I at a dead end?
Thanks
Gail

Paul Nixon said...

Gail

He's possibly 44630 Frederick W Green, later 42170 Loyal North Lancashire Regiment. Use the Old Search on Ancestry as the New Search is absolutely hopeless. Sad to report though that Old Search appears to be on its way out - which is when I may well be on my way out as well.

Paul

Anonymous said...

Hello Paul,
I am trying to find an approximate recruitment date for my great uncle, George Henry Bootham 241004 1/4th Hallamshire Battalion, York and Lancaster Regiment. I'm finding the numbering system fairly baffling, I wondered if you might be able to help.

Many thanks.

Paul Nixon said...

The number 241004 actually belongs to the series that was used by the 5th Battalion Y&L and dates to january 1915.

Nash017 said...

Hi Paul, I am trying to find out in which battle my grandfather died. G.E.Sunley 204245 Y& L Regt 2/4 (Hallamshire) (TF) Battalion. K.I.A. 22/04/18. All I get is France and Flanders Theatre of war. I know he is buried at Gommecourt Cemetary, but I can not find any battle in that area. Hoping you can help me, thank you.
N.Sunley

Anonymous said...

Re: 241004. Thanks very much Paul, that's another piece of the jigsaw in place. Many of the numbers following George's are indeed 1/5th or Labour Corps, though 241006 belongs to George Oates, listed as 2/4th. Were recruits allowed a certain amount of choice, for instance if they had friends already in a particular battalion?

Paul Nixon said...

Remember that 241104 was the second number that this man had. His original number would have been a four digit number beginning 33** or higher. In Jan 1915 it was still possible of course, to volunteer for a particular battalion and so the 5th Battalion would have been his battalion of choice. I have looked again at some records for men who joined the 2/5th Battalion and have noticed that a number of men were posted to the 2/4th in Feb 1918 but retained their original 2/5th Battalion numbers. For instance, 3300 Thomas Aitken joined the 2/5th Battalion on 5th January 1915, was renumbered 241016 in 1917, was posted to the 2/4th on 5th Feb 1918 but kept his 2/5th number. So it looks as though there may have been a block transfer of men from the 2/5th to 2/4th. Mystery solved? The battalion war diary for either battalion in Feb 1918 may explain more.

Paul

Paul Nixon said...

Nash017

Your best bet would be to access the war diary for the 2/4th Battalion for 1918. The National Archives should have a copy, and indeed it may be that it has already been digitised and online. Check here:http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/war-diaries-ww1.htm

Paul

samjbrown68 said...

Hi Paul,

I'm in Australia and trying to find some information on my Great-Grandfather Thomas Aston. He was killed on the 1st July 1916. His regimental number was 13448. We know very little about him as he gave my Grandfather away when his wife died in childbirth. The son he gave away was serving in Ypres but we don't know if they were aware of each other. My Mum and I travelled to Blighty Valley Cemetery last year because we had no idea if any member of family had ever paid their respects. A very moving experience. Any information you may have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance
Samantha Brown
samjbrown68@bigpond.com

Paul Nixon said...

Sam, thanks for posting.

Soldiers Died in The Great war notes that Thomas was born in Walsall and was living in Castleford when he joined the army. He enlisted at Pontefract and was killed in action whilst serving with the 8th Battalion, Y&L Regiment. His number indicates that he joined the 8th Battalion in September 1914 when the battalion was formed. The battalion trained in the UK for almost a year, finally arriving in Boulogne on the 27th August 1915. Thomas's medal index card notes that he arrived overseas on that day and so you can pretty much take it for granted that he arrived that he was an original member of the battalion who arrived with the battalion when it disembarked in France. The war diary for the 8th Y&L will tell you exactly what the battalion went through from this date until 1st July 1915 although he probably will not be mentioned by name. Local newspapers for Pontefract and/or Castleford may carry a notification of his death post July 1st 1916 and so you should definitely check these sources.

You'll also be pleased to know that a partial service record for Thomas survives in WO 363 and is published on Ancestry's site. It gives details of his service history and also notes surviving relatives - widow, father. mother, brothers (2), sisters (2), nephews and nieces (2). I hope the above is of interest to you.

Paul

duke63 said...

Hi paul,

Just trying to find a little information about my grandfather William Oscar Sewell. His medal record stateshe was in the Suffolk Regiment initially number 45590 and then the Yorks and Lancs number 33458. Why he went from one Regiment to another we have no idea. He would also appear to have been part of the Noperforce in late 1920 as he received the GSM with NW Persia Clasp. Any information gratefully received but particulalry interested on when he signed up and if there was a break in service from when he joined the Noperforce.

Many thanks.

Paul Nixon said...

Re William Sewell. Thanks for posting. My database becomes less reliable the later the war progresses, but the Suffolk Regt number looks to date to around October/November 1916. By this stage of the war, men were posted to where they were needed most and therefore I would not be overly surprised to see a posting from one regiment in East Anglia to another in Yorkshire. It happened a lot. Have you tried contacting the MoD to see whether they still hold a service record for your grandfather? If he was serving after 1920 the records may still be with them. Worth a shot, I'd have thought. I would not have thought that there would have been a break in his army service.

Paul

duke63 said...

Thanks Paul, that is a great help and will now ask the MoD if they still have his service records. As you have suggested it would seem they still hold records for anyone who was still in service at January 1921.

Again thanks for your help and advice. It is much appreciated.

Chris Grant said...

I am trying to trace any war records of my late Grandfather PTE. F. Grant Service No. 42017 Y. & L. R.
(Taken from his WW1 Victory medal). He survived the war.
Can anyone suggest where I can confirm the regiment and where it served in WW1?
He was from Glasgow so wondering why he may have joined the Yorkshire & Lancashire Regiment.

Paul Nixon said...

Chris

His medal index card notes: 42017 Y&L, G/52473 Middx Regt and finally T/394428 ASC.

The Y&L number dates to April 1917, the Middx number to later the same year - probably around October. I don't have significant data on the ASC but the T/ prefix indicates Horse Transport.

Hope this helps

Paul

Anonymous said...

hi Whilst reseaching on our memrial we came across A Pte Cyril Clay and have discovered the following information from his attestation papers. From what I have read the 1st Btn were never in France rather Salonika after returning from India. Can you shed some light on the accuracy on his background.

Pte Cyril Clay
York & Lancaster Regiment 1st Battalion
Formerly in North Staffs Regiment No 8119

no 20264 Attestation papers available on line

Private (Regular Soldier)
21st October 1915
Potijze Burial Ground Cemetery, Belgium
Grave Ref. D.I.5

Awarded 1914-15 Star,
Victory and British War Medals
Enlisted 1913, age 18 yrs 9 mths

From ex Mercian (Lt)



Many Thanks

Paul Nixon said...

Not really sure what you'd like me to add to this. If you have found service papers then you're doing better than most. I had a quick look and he originally joined the 3rd (Special Reserve) Battalion of the North Staffordsahire Regiment, later transferring to The 3rd Special Reserve Battalion of the Y&L and then subsequently posted to the 1st Battalion - all of this the normal path for a man joining the SR.

Paul

Mike said...

Hi Paul,
I am about to visit the war graves and would like to know where my grandfather fought? He was private 35508 in the 5th platoon Yorkshire and Lancashire regiment. He enlisted on 6th June 1916. Discharged 8th May 1918 medically unfit. I do not seem to be able to find any info on all the sites I have tried.
Many thanks in advance for any help
Best regards
Mike mike@amliving.com.au

Paul Nixon said...

Hello Mike

The 5th Battalion (rather than platoon) York & Lancs Regt was a Territorial Force battalion. I'm guessing you got his enlistment and discharge dates from the silver war badge roll.

In the absence of a service record you should get a copy of the war diary. These are all held at The National Archives in Kew and many are already on line. Once you het hold of the diary you'll be able to re-trace the steps taken by the 5th Y&L.

Hope you have a good trip.

AEnone said...

Hello,
I am a researcher for a Military Museum in Melbourne, Australia. A member came to me with a Boer War medal on ribbon, with two clasps. They are inscribed "South Africa 1901"
and "South Africa 1902".
The medal has inscription around the edge: #6075 Pte. T.Way. York and Lancs Rgt.
I have had a look online at some of the usual sites that I use but can't find this chap and wondered whether you could help, or at least point me in the right direction?
I believe that the Y and L Rgt was involved in the relief of Ladysmith.
Many thanks,
(Miss) AEnone McRae-Clift.

Paul Nixon said...

Re 6075 Pte T Way

The medal you were shown is the King's South Africa Medal. He was also awarded a Queen's South Africa Medal with the clasps Cape Colony, Orange Free State, Transvaal and Laing's Nek. The medal roll for this medal records him as WEY and has him serving with the 1st Battalion Y&L.

Paul

Anonymous said...

Hello, I am looking for any information on my great grandfather Sam Beecher. He served in the Yorks and Lancs with reg. no 16558. I have found a medal card with that name and number and I think it says he served in the Balkans? Before being discharged on SWB? List in 1916. Any help would be great.
Tristan.

Paul Nixon said...

16558 Private Sam Beecher enlisted on the 7th September 1914 and was discharged from the 6th York & Lancs on the 20th July 1916 as a result of wounds. His silver war badge number was 400681.

Elaine said...

I am researching my Grandfather,the only evidence of war service I have is a medal index.it contains the info
Maurice Woodcock Private
Yorks and lances Corps Army Ordinance
Reg no.726 039278
Victory medal Roll no101Bz8. Pg3077
British medal
It would be good to get a little more knowledge if you could help.
Thank you

Paul Nixon said...

Elaine

The number 726 for the Y&L possibly belongs to either the 4th or 5th TF battalions and, if it does, would date to May or June 1908 in both cases. Alternatively, the number might belong to one of the Pals' battalions: the 12th (Sheffield), 13th (1st Barnsley) or 14th (2nd Barnsley), in which case the number would date to 1914 for the 12th and 13th Bns, or March 1915 for the 14th. If you know when he was born, you might be able to rule out the 1908 date as being too young.

The AOC number is easier to date and was issued in March 1918. Men were transferred to the AOC under Army Order 204 of 1916. You can read more on this Army Order on the Great War Forum (Google Army Order 204 1916).

Anonymous said...

Thank you for your help Paul .Not sure about theTF battalion but he lived in Barnsley so think that maybe where he fits in .He was a married man in 1908 and is a miner so not sure why he went in the army.
I will follow up on the info you have given me.
Elaine

Lee Dillon said...

Hi Paul

hopefully this posts in the correct place. My Great Grandfather was in the 2nd Y&L James Wickham L Cpl 8084 and received the 1914 star. Are you able to give any more info on him? Many thanks Lee Dillon.

Paul Nixon said...

Hello Lee

Thanks for posting. I regret I am no longer undertaking unpaid research but I would be happy to look at this as a paid project. I outline the research service here:

http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.co.uk/p/research.html

If you are interested please do drop me a line.

Marian said...

Hi There... I got a complicated one for you. My grandfather who joined the 3rd York & Lancaster regiment ( Reserve )Service No: 3322 Name Timothy Roper. in August 1914. But was actually John Humphries. Which he admitted that he had for whatever reason changed his name around the time of 1906. How ever I have discovered that my grandfather is down as a deserter because he was in france & came home to Yorkshire at some time because he was ill & died on 4th Dec 1918 and is buried at Conisborough cemetery. All this happened without the knowledge of his wife ( my grandmother)who only found out when she tried to claim money from the army for her children to be told he had gone missing. Would be grateful for any info that some one may be able to find out. Must point out that I live in South Wales as my father met & married my mother who was from Ebbw Vale Gwent. My name is Marian Price... nee Roper.

Paul Nixon said...

Hello Marian

I can provide quite a bit of information about this man. Please drop me a line and I will outline the options for you. You'll find all the details on the RESEARCH tab on this blog.

Paul

Cheryl said...

Hi Paul,
I have just found my Grandfathers records. He joined the York & Lancaster and his service #35723 - Nicholas Thomas Oates- I also found these : WT4/123194. Dr. 2nd Res. Park. R.A.S.C., 35723. 8th York & Lanc. R..
I was wondering if you could tell me where he served and any battles if any he was involved in? I appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks

Paul Nixon said...

Hello Cheryl

He served with the ASC first and latterly with the 8th Y&L. The Y&L number would tell us when he joined the regiment and armed with that information you could then check the battalion war diary to see exactly where he would have served, He only served with the 8th Battalion overseas and was demobbed in Feb 1919 and so that makes life easier for you. If you want me to dig deeper into his enlistment date please contact me by following the instructions on the RESEARCH tab on this blog.

Paul

louise cranstone said...

Hi my great grandfather Richard William Cranstone was a private in the Yorkshire and Lancashire regiment, his regiment number was 2055. What battalion would he have been in and and where might he have fought? If you have any info I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks Louise

Peter Bray said...

Dear Paul,
My Great, Great Grandfather (Albert Bray) served with 4th Hallamshire Battalion, Yorks and Lancs during WWI (KIA 04-1915). His army number was 2068, according to his service record from WWI. He did have previous service before with the TF or Volunteer Force before it became known as the TA. 1st (Hallamshire) Battalion, Y&L. I am trying to find information on his pre-TA 1907 service.

What could you tell me about his service number (2068)?
Would he have kept the same number upon reenlistment?
Please could you point me in the right direction of where I can find more information?


Kind Regards


Peter Bray

Paul Nixon said...

Louise - he served with the 1/4th Battalion. Please see the RESEARCH tab for more information.

Paul Nixon said...

Peter

2068 was the number he was issued with when he joined the battalion. It would have been a different number for his number with the Volunteer Force. If you have a service record already then you're doing better than most. VF records don't survive as a separate series although they can occasionally be found with early TF enlistments.

Paul

louise cranstone said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.